Ted Bundy's Final Interview
His Fatal Addiction to Pornography
His Fatal Addiction to Pornography
"Ted Bundy, an infamous serial killer,
granted an interview to psychologist James Dobson
just before he was executed on January 24, 1989.
In that interview, he described the agony of his
addiction to pornography. Bundy goes back to his roots,
explaining the development of his compulsive behavior.
He reveals his addiction to hard-core pornography
and how it fueled the terrible crimes he committed.
granted an interview to psychologist James Dobson
just before he was executed on January 24, 1989.
In that interview, he described the agony of his
addiction to pornography. Bundy goes back to his roots,
explaining the development of his compulsive behavior.
He reveals his addiction to hard-core pornography
and how it fueled the terrible crimes he committed.
When Ted Bundy was thirteen years old, he discovered
“dirty magazines” in a dump near his home. He was
instantly captivated by them. In time, Bundy became
more and more addicted to violent images in magazines
and videos. He got his kicks from seeing women being
tortured and murdered. When he tired of that, there was
only one place his addiction could go - from fantasy to
reality.
“dirty magazines” in a dump near his home. He was
instantly captivated by them. In time, Bundy became
more and more addicted to violent images in magazines
and videos. He got his kicks from seeing women being
tortured and murdered. When he tired of that, there was
only one place his addiction could go - from fantasy to
reality.
Bundy, a good-looking, intelligent law student,
learned to lure women into his car by various forms
of deception. He would put a cast on his arm or leg,
then walk across a university campus carrying several
books. When he saw an interesting coed standing or
walking alone, he’d “accidentally” drop the books near
her. The girl would help him gather them and take them
to his car. Then he would entice her or push her into
the vehicle where she was taken captive. After he had
molested the girl and the rage of passion had passed,
she would be killed and Bundy would dump her body in a
region where it would not be found for months. This went
on for years.
learned to lure women into his car by various forms
of deception. He would put a cast on his arm or leg,
then walk across a university campus carrying several
books. When he saw an interesting coed standing or
walking alone, he’d “accidentally” drop the books near
her. The girl would help him gather them and take them
to his car. Then he would entice her or push her into
the vehicle where she was taken captive. After he had
molested the girl and the rage of passion had passed,
she would be killed and Bundy would dump her body in a
region where it would not be found for months. This went
on for years.
By the time he was apprehended, Bundy had killed at least
twenty-eight young women and girls in acts too horrible
to contemplate. He was finally convicted and sentenced
to death for killing a twelve-year-old girl and dumping
her body in a pigsty. After more than ten years of appeals
and legal maneuvering, a judge gave the order for Bundy’s
execution. That week, he asked an attorney to call me
and request that I come to Florida State Prison for
a final interview.
twenty-eight young women and girls in acts too horrible
to contemplate. He was finally convicted and sentenced
to death for killing a twelve-year-old girl and dumping
her body in a pigsty. After more than ten years of appeals
and legal maneuvering, a judge gave the order for Bundy’s
execution. That week, he asked an attorney to call me
and request that I come to Florida State Prison for
a final interview.
When I arrived, I discovered a circus-like atmosphere
outside the prison. Teenagers carried signs saying
“Burn, Bundy, Burn,” and “You’re Dead, Ted.”
Also in the crowd were more than 300 reporters who had
come to get a story on the killer’s last hours,
but Bundy wouldn’t talk to them. He had something
important to say, and he believed the media couldn’t be
trusted to report it accurately. Therefore, I was invited
to bring a camera crew to record his last comments
from death.
outside the prison. Teenagers carried signs saying
“Burn, Bundy, Burn,” and “You’re Dead, Ted.”
Also in the crowd were more than 300 reporters who had
come to get a story on the killer’s last hours,
but Bundy wouldn’t talk to them. He had something
important to say, and he believed the media couldn’t be
trusted to report it accurately. Therefore, I was invited
to bring a camera crew to record his last comments
from death.
I’ll never forget that experience. I went through seven
steel doors and metal detectors so sensitive that my tie
tack and the nails in my shoes were enough to set off
an alarm. Finally, I reached an inner chamber where Bundy
and I were to meet. He was brought in, strip-searched,
and then surrounded by six prison guards while he talked
to me. Midway through our conversation, the lights
suddenly went dim.
steel doors and metal detectors so sensitive that my tie
tack and the nails in my shoes were enough to set off
an alarm. Finally, I reached an inner chamber where Bundy
and I were to meet. He was brought in, strip-searched,
and then surrounded by six prison guards while he talked
to me. Midway through our conversation, the lights
suddenly went dim.
Ted said, “Just wait a moment,
and they will come back on.”
and they will come back on.”
I didn’t realize until later what had happened.
The prisoner knew that his executioners were testing
the electric chair that would take his life the next
morning.
The prisoner knew that his executioners were testing
the electric chair that would take his life the next
morning.
Ted Bundy wanted to tell the world about pornography
What was it that Ted Bundy was so anxious to say?
He felt he owed it to society to warn of the dangers
of hard-core pornography and to explain how it had
led him to murder so many innocent women and girls.
He felt he owed it to society to warn of the dangers
of hard-core pornography and to explain how it had
led him to murder so many innocent women and girls.
With tears in his eyes, he described the monster that
took possession of him when he had been drinking.
His craze to kill was ALWAYS inflamed by violent
pornography.
took possession of him when he had been drinking.
His craze to kill was ALWAYS inflamed by violent
pornography.
Quoted below is an edited transcript of the conversation
that occurred just seventeen hours before Ted was led to
the electric chair.
that occurred just seventeen hours before Ted was led to
the electric chair.
James C. Dobson: It is about 2:30 in the afternoon.
You are scheduled to be executed tomorrow morning at 7:00,
if you don’t receive another stay. What is going through
your mind? What thoughts have you had in these last
few days?
You are scheduled to be executed tomorrow morning at 7:00,
if you don’t receive another stay. What is going through
your mind? What thoughts have you had in these last
few days?
Ted: I won’t kid you to say it is something I feel
or I’m in control of or have come to terms with.
It’s a moment-by-moment thing. Sometimes I feel very
tranquil and other times I don’t feel tranquil at all.
What’s going through my mind right now is to use the
minutes and hours I have left as fruitfully as possible.
It helps to live in the moment, in the essence that we
use it productively. Right now I’m feeling calm,
in large part because I’m here with you.
or I’m in control of or have come to terms with.
It’s a moment-by-moment thing. Sometimes I feel very
tranquil and other times I don’t feel tranquil at all.
What’s going through my mind right now is to use the
minutes and hours I have left as fruitfully as possible.
It helps to live in the moment, in the essence that we
use it productively. Right now I’m feeling calm,
in large part because I’m here with you.
JCD: For the record, you are guilty of killing
many women and girls.
many women and girls.
Ted: Yes, that’s true.
JCD: How did it happen? Take me back. What are the
antecedents of the behavior that we’ve seen? You were
raised in what you consider to be a healthy home.
You were not physically, sexually or emotionally abused.
antecedents of the behavior that we’ve seen? You were
raised in what you consider to be a healthy home.
You were not physically, sexually or emotionally abused.
Ted: No. And that’s part of the tragedy of this whole
situation. I grew up in a wonderful home with two
dedicated and loving parents, as one of 5 brothers and
sisters. We, as children, were the focus of my parent’s
lives. We regularly attended church. My parents did not
drink or smoke or gamble. There was no physical abuse or
fighting in the home. I’m not saying it was “Leave it to
Beaver”, but it was a fine, solid Christian home.
situation. I grew up in a wonderful home with two
dedicated and loving parents, as one of 5 brothers and
sisters. We, as children, were the focus of my parent’s
lives. We regularly attended church. My parents did not
drink or smoke or gamble. There was no physical abuse or
fighting in the home. I’m not saying it was “Leave it to
Beaver”, but it was a fine, solid Christian home.
Ted: I hope no one will try to take the easy way out of this
and accuse my family of contributing to this.
I know, and I’m trying to tell you as honestly as
I know how, what happened.
As a young boy of 12 or 13, I encountered, outside the
home, in the local grocery and drug stores, softcore
pornography. Young boys explore the sideways and byways
of their neighborhoods, and in our neighborhood, people
would dump the garbage. From time to time, we would come
across books of a harder nature - more graphic.
This also included detective magazines, etc., and I want
to emphasize this. The most damaging kind of pornography
- and I’m talking from hard, real, personal experience -
is that that involves violence and sexual violence.
The wedding of those two forces - as I know only too well
- brings about behavior that is too terrible to describe.
home, in the local grocery and drug stores, softcore
pornography. Young boys explore the sideways and byways
of their neighborhoods, and in our neighborhood, people
would dump the garbage. From time to time, we would come
across books of a harder nature - more graphic.
This also included detective magazines, etc., and I want
to emphasize this. The most damaging kind of pornography
- and I’m talking from hard, real, personal experience -
is that that involves violence and sexual violence.
The wedding of those two forces - as I know only too well
- brings about behavior that is too terrible to describe.
JCD: Walk me through that. What was going on in your mind
at that time?
at that time?
Ted: Before we go any further, it is important to me
that people believe what I’m saying. I’m not blaming
pornography. I’m not saying it caused me to go out and
do certain things. I take full responsibility for all
the things that I’ve done. That’s not the question here.
The issue is how this kind of literature contributed
and helped mold and shape the kinds of violent behavior.
that people believe what I’m saying. I’m not blaming
pornography. I’m not saying it caused me to go out and
do certain things. I take full responsibility for all
the things that I’ve done. That’s not the question here.
The issue is how this kind of literature contributed
and helped mold and shape the kinds of violent behavior.
JCD: It fueled your fantasies ?
Ted: In the beginning, it fuels this kind of thought
process. Then, at a certain time, it is instrumental
in crystallizing it, making it into something that is
almost a separate entity inside.
process. Then, at a certain time, it is instrumental
in crystallizing it, making it into something that is
almost a separate entity inside.
JCD: You had gone about as far as you could go in your
own fantasy life, with printed material, photos, videos,
etc., and then there was the urge to take that step over
to a physical event.
own fantasy life, with printed material, photos, videos,
etc., and then there was the urge to take that step over
to a physical event.
Ted: I was a normal person. I had good friends.
I led a normal life, except for this one,
small but very potent and destructive segment
that I kept very secret and close to myself.
I led a normal life, except for this one,
small but very potent and destructive segment
that I kept very secret and close to myself.
Ted: Once you become addicted to it, and I look at this
as a kind of addiction, you look for more potent,
more explicit, more graphic kinds of material.
Like an addiction, you keep craving something which is
harder and gives you a greater sense of excitement,
until you reach the point where the pornography only goes
so far - that jumping off point where you begin to think
maybe actually doing it will give you that which is just
beyond reading about it and looking at it.
as a kind of addiction, you look for more potent,
more explicit, more graphic kinds of material.
Like an addiction, you keep craving something which is
harder and gives you a greater sense of excitement,
until you reach the point where the pornography only goes
so far - that jumping off point where you begin to think
maybe actually doing it will give you that which is just
beyond reading about it and looking at it.
JCD: How long did you stay at that point before you
actually assaulted someone?
actually assaulted someone?
Ted: A couple of years. I was dealing with very strong
inhibitions against criminal and violent behavior.
That had been conditioned and bred into me from my
neighborhood, environment, church, and schools.
inhibitions against criminal and violent behavior.
That had been conditioned and bred into me from my
neighborhood, environment, church, and schools.
Ted: I knew it was wrong to think about it, and certainly,
to do it was wrong. I was on the edge, and the last
vestiges of restraint were being tested constantly,
and assailed through the kind of fantasy life that was
fueled, largely, by pornography.
to do it was wrong. I was on the edge, and the last
vestiges of restraint were being tested constantly,
and assailed through the kind of fantasy life that was
fueled, largely, by pornography.
JCD: Do you remember what pushed you over that edge?
Do you remember the decision to “go for it”?
Do you remember where you decided to throw caution
to the wind?
Do you remember the decision to “go for it”?
Do you remember where you decided to throw caution
to the wind?
Ted: It’s a very difficult thing to describe -
the sensation of reaching that point where I knew
I couldn’t control it anymore. The barriers I had
learned as a child were not enough to hold me back
from seeking out and harming somebody.
the sensation of reaching that point where I knew
I couldn’t control it anymore. The barriers I had
learned as a child were not enough to hold me back
from seeking out and harming somebody.
JCD: Would it be accurate to call that a sexual frenzy?
Ted: That’s one way to describe it - a compulsion,
a building up of this destructive energy. Another fact
I haven’t mentioned is the use of alcohol.
In conjunction with my exposure to pornography,
alcohol reduced my inhibitions and pornography eroded
them further.
a building up of this destructive energy. Another fact
I haven’t mentioned is the use of alcohol.
In conjunction with my exposure to pornography,
alcohol reduced my inhibitions and pornography eroded
them further.
JCD: After you committed your first murder,
what was the emotional effect? What happened in the days
after that?
what was the emotional effect? What happened in the days
after that?
Ted: Even all these years later, it is difficult to talk
about. Reliving it through talking about it is difficult
to say the least, but I want you to understand what
happened. It was like coming out of some horrible trance
or dream. I can only liken it to (and I don’t want to
overdramatize it) being possessed by something so awful
and alien, and the next morning waking up and remembering
what happened and realizing that in the eyes of the law,
and certainly in the eyes of God, you’re responsible.
To wake up in the morning and realize what I had done
with a clear mind, with all my essential moral and
ethical feelings intact, absolutely horrified me.
about. Reliving it through talking about it is difficult
to say the least, but I want you to understand what
happened. It was like coming out of some horrible trance
or dream. I can only liken it to (and I don’t want to
overdramatize it) being possessed by something so awful
and alien, and the next morning waking up and remembering
what happened and realizing that in the eyes of the law,
and certainly in the eyes of God, you’re responsible.
To wake up in the morning and realize what I had done
with a clear mind, with all my essential moral and
ethical feelings intact, absolutely horrified me.
JCD: You hadn’t known you were capable of that before?
Ted: There is no way to describe the brutal urge to do
that, and once it has been satisfied, or spent, and that
energy level recedes, I became myself again. Basically,
I was a normal person.
that, and once it has been satisfied, or spent, and that
energy level recedes, I became myself again. Basically,
I was a normal person.
Ted: There are those loose in their towns and communities,
like me, whose dangerous impulses are being fueled,
day in and day out, by violence in the media in its
various forms - particularly sexualized violence.
like me, whose dangerous impulses are being fueled,
day in and day out, by violence in the media in its
various forms - particularly sexualized violence.
Ted: I wasn’t some guy hanging out in bars, or a bum.
I wasn’t a pervert in the sense that people look at
somebody and say, “I know there’s something wrong with
him.” I was a normal person. I had good friends.
I led a normal life, except for this one, small but very
potent and destructive segment that I kept very secret
and close to myself.
I wasn’t a pervert in the sense that people look at
somebody and say, “I know there’s something wrong with
him.” I was a normal person. I had good friends.
I led a normal life, except for this one, small but very
potent and destructive segment that I kept very secret
and close to myself.
Ted: Those of us who have been so influenced by
violence in the media, particularly pornographic violence,
are not some kind of inherent monsters.
We are your sons and husbands. We grew up in
regular families. Pornography can reach in and snatch a
kid out of any house today. It snatched me out of my home
20 or 30 years ago. As diligent as my parents were,
and they were diligent in protecting their children,
and as good a Christian home as we had, there is no
protection against the kinds of influences that are
loose in a society that tolerates....
violence in the media, particularly pornographic violence,
are not some kind of inherent monsters.
We are your sons and husbands. We grew up in
regular families. Pornography can reach in and snatch a
kid out of any house today. It snatched me out of my home
20 or 30 years ago. As diligent as my parents were,
and they were diligent in protecting their children,
and as good a Christian home as we had, there is no
protection against the kinds of influences that are
loose in a society that tolerates....
JCD: Outside these walls, there are several hundred
reporters that wanted to talk to you, and you asked me
to come because you had something you wanted to say.
You feel that hardcore pornography, and the door to it,
softcore pornography, is doing untold damage to other people
and causing other women to be abused and killed
the way you did.
reporters that wanted to talk to you, and you asked me
to come because you had something you wanted to say.
You feel that hardcore pornography, and the door to it,
softcore pornography, is doing untold damage to other people
and causing other women to be abused and killed
the way you did.
Ted: I’m no social scientist, and I don’t pretend to
believe what John Q. Citizen thinks about this,
but I’ve lived in prison for a long time now,
and I’ve met a lot of men who were motivated to commit
violence. Without exception, every one of them was
deeply involved in pornography - deeply consumed by the
addiction. The F.B.I.’s own study on serial homicide
shows that the most common interest among serial killers
is pornographers. It’s true.
believe what John Q. Citizen thinks about this,
but I’ve lived in prison for a long time now,
and I’ve met a lot of men who were motivated to commit
violence. Without exception, every one of them was
deeply involved in pornography - deeply consumed by the
addiction. The F.B.I.’s own study on serial homicide
shows that the most common interest among serial killers
is pornographers. It’s true.
JCD: What would your life have been like without
that influence?
that influence?
Ted: I know it would have been far better,
not just for me, but for a lot of other people
- victims and families. There’s no question that it
would have been a better life. I’m absolutely certain
it would not have involved this kind of violence.
not just for me, but for a lot of other people
- victims and families. There’s no question that it
would have been a better life. I’m absolutely certain
it would not have involved this kind of violence.
JCD: If I were able to ask the kind of questions
that are being asked, one would be, “Are you thinking
about all those victims and their families that are so
wounded? Years later, their lives aren’t normal.
They will never be normal. Is there remorse?”
that are being asked, one would be, “Are you thinking
about all those victims and their families that are so
wounded? Years later, their lives aren’t normal.
They will never be normal. Is there remorse?”
Ted: I know people will accuse me of being self-serving,
but through God’s help, I have been able to come to the
point, much too late, where I can feel the hurt and the
pain I am responsible for. Yes. Absolutely! During the
past few days, myself and a number of investigators have
been talking about unsolved cases - murders I was involved
in. It’s hard to talk about all these years later,
because it revives all the terrible feelings and thoughts
that I have steadfastly and diligently dealt with -
I think successfully. It has been reopened and I have
felt the pain and the horror of that.
but through God’s help, I have been able to come to the
point, much too late, where I can feel the hurt and the
pain I am responsible for. Yes. Absolutely! During the
past few days, myself and a number of investigators have
been talking about unsolved cases - murders I was involved
in. It’s hard to talk about all these years later,
because it revives all the terrible feelings and thoughts
that I have steadfastly and diligently dealt with -
I think successfully. It has been reopened and I have
felt the pain and the horror of that.
Ted: I hope that those who I have caused so much grief,
even if they don’t believe my expression of sorrow,
will believe what I’m saying now; there are those loose
in their towns and communities, like me, whose dangerous
impulses are being fueled, day in and day out, by violence
in the media in its various forms - particularly
sexualized violence. What scares me is when I see what’s
on cable T.V. Some of the violence in the movies that
come into homes today is stuff they wouldn’t show in
X-rated adult theatres 30 years ago.
even if they don’t believe my expression of sorrow,
will believe what I’m saying now; there are those loose
in their towns and communities, like me, whose dangerous
impulses are being fueled, day in and day out, by violence
in the media in its various forms - particularly
sexualized violence. What scares me is when I see what’s
on cable T.V. Some of the violence in the movies that
come into homes today is stuff they wouldn’t show in
X-rated adult theatres 30 years ago.
JCD: The slasher movies?
Ted: That is the most graphic violence on screen,
especially when children are unattended or unaware that
they could be a Ted Bundy; that they could have a
predisposition to that kind of behavior.
especially when children are unattended or unaware that
they could be a Ted Bundy; that they could have a
predisposition to that kind of behavior.
JCD: One of the final murders you committed was 12-year-
old Kimberly Leach. I think the public outcry is greater
there because an innocent child was taken from a
playground. What did you feel after that?
Were they the normal emotions after that?
old Kimberly Leach. I think the public outcry is greater
there because an innocent child was taken from a
playground. What did you feel after that?
Were they the normal emotions after that?
Ted: I can’t really talk about that right now.
It’s too painful. I would like to be able to convey
to you what that experience is like, but I won’t be able
to talk about that. I can’t begin to understand the pain
that the parents of these children and young women that
I have harmed feel. And I can’t restore much to them,
if anything. I won’t pretend to, and I don’t even expect
them to forgive me. I’m not asking for it. That kind of
forgiveness is of God; if they have it, they have it,
and if they don’t, maybe they’ll find it someday.
It’s too painful. I would like to be able to convey
to you what that experience is like, but I won’t be able
to talk about that. I can’t begin to understand the pain
that the parents of these children and young women that
I have harmed feel. And I can’t restore much to them,
if anything. I won’t pretend to, and I don’t even expect
them to forgive me. I’m not asking for it. That kind of
forgiveness is of God; if they have it, they have it,
and if they don’t, maybe they’ll find it someday.
JCD: Do you deserve the punishment the state has
inflicted upon you?
inflicted upon you?
Ted: That’s a very good question. I don’t want to die;
I won’t kid you. I deserve, certainly, the most extreme
punishment society has. And I think society deserves to
be protected from me and from others like me. That’s for
sure. What I hope will come of our discussion is that
I think society deserves to be protected from itself.
As we have been talking, there are forces at loose in
this country, especially this kind of violent pornography,
where, on one hand, well-meaning people will condemn the
behavior of a Ted Bundy while they’re walking past a
magazine rack full of the very kinds of things that send
young kids down the road to being Ted Bundys. That’s the
irony.
I won’t kid you. I deserve, certainly, the most extreme
punishment society has. And I think society deserves to
be protected from me and from others like me. That’s for
sure. What I hope will come of our discussion is that
I think society deserves to be protected from itself.
As we have been talking, there are forces at loose in
this country, especially this kind of violent pornography,
where, on one hand, well-meaning people will condemn the
behavior of a Ted Bundy while they’re walking past a
magazine rack full of the very kinds of things that send
young kids down the road to being Ted Bundys. That’s the
irony.
Ted: I’m talking about going beyond retribution,
which is what people want with me. There is no way
in the world that killing me is going to restore those
beautiful children to their parents and correct and
soothe the pain. But there are lots of other kids playing
in streets around the country today who are going to be
dead tomorrow, and the next day, because other young
people are reading and seeing the kinds of things that
are available in the media today.
which is what people want with me. There is no way
in the world that killing me is going to restore those
beautiful children to their parents and correct and
soothe the pain. But there are lots of other kids playing
in streets around the country today who are going to be
dead tomorrow, and the next day, because other young
people are reading and seeing the kinds of things that
are available in the media today.
Ted Bundy was executed at 7:15 am the day after this
conversation was recorded."
conversation was recorded."
--Source: Focus on the Family
Dr. Dobson’s interview with Ted Bundy
Life on the Edge, Dr. James Dobson (1995)
Word Publishing, Nashville, Tennessee
